In honor of Pride month, CX Passport shares an important rerun...
🎤Truly a DO NOT MISS episode (E13) of CX Passport with @Todd Sears of @OutLeadership "The one with Return on EQUALITY"🎧
🌈Why would HSBC change the lights on their famous Hong Kong building for the first time in 37 years?🏳🌈
💥💓At 28:32, your host experiences a massively impactful teachable moment
💰When doing what’s right for society is right for business
🧐”Leveraging difference” as opposed to “managing diversity”
🌍An open VIP invitation to Montenegro
🔜You don’t HAVE to change...but in business, survival is optional
💭“...describes the concept of leveraging difference versus managing diversity. The idea of managing diversity is that it's a problem to be solved, and it's only focused on those six areas of visible difference. It's just stuck in HR and has no business connectivity versus leveraging difference which is an opportunity, not a problem. You're focusing on all elements of difference, not just inherent diversity, but acquired diversity, cultural fluency, your background, your experience, all the things you as a human bring to an organization, and it's tied to business outcomes.” - Todd
TRANSCRIPT
Rick Denton: 0:05
You're listening to CX Passport, the show about creating great customer experiences with a dash of travel talk. Each episode we’ll talk with our guests about great CX, travel...and just like the best journeys, explore new directions we never anticipated. I'm your host Rick Denton. I believe the best meals are served outside and require a passport. Let's get going. What would drive you to leave a highly successful corporate role and investment banking to champion a cause? How could you create a global organization engaging with the highest corridors of business to drive your causes mission forward, today's cx passport guest Todd Sears did just that. I am out of superlatives. To describe my excitement to get to talk with Todd today. Todd is the CEO and founder of out leadership, a certified B Corp and strategic advisory firm dedicated to extending equality and access to opportunity for LGBT people worldwide. were taught and out leadership differ from other LGBT focus groups is a focus solely on business. They drive change by creating that space to have these impactful conversations with the leaders of global companies that then drives the ongoing advancement of diversity inclusion throughout the business world and society in general. And, you know, this is a travel podcast two, I can't wait to hear about Todd's experience of spending hundreds of days per year on the road and some of the fascinating places he's been Todd, welcome to cx passport.
Todd Sears: 1:40
Thank you, Rick. It's great to be here. Very excited to chat. Yeah, I'm
Rick Denton: 1:43
really looking forward to it clearly. So let's start right off the bat with customer experience. So from a customer experience perspective, why is it important for companies to have a diverse employee base?
Todd Sears: 1:53
Well, you know, I would actually broaden it beyond just employee base, I think my whole framework on diversity inclusion is, is actually predicated on a guy named Martin Davidson, who I met almost 20 years ago. And he describes the concept of leveraging difference versus managing diversity. The idea of managing diversity is that it's a problem to be solved. And it's only focused on the six areas of visible difference. And it's just stuck in HR and has no business connectivity, versus leveraging differences in opportunity, not a problem. And you're focusing on all elements of difference, not just inherent diversity, but acquired diversity, cultural fluency, your background, your experience, all the things you as a human bring to an organization. And it's tied to business outcomes. And everyone has a role to play including straight white men, who traditionally diversity and inclusion really has historically Unfortunately, not intentionally, always, but is ultimately meant everybody but the straight white men who of course, make up the majority and a lot of companies. So if you're going at it from a just an employee perspective, you're missing the opportunity to connect with these markets, with a broader inclusion. And also ultimately, just to be more successful, because you're going to innovate when you have a better broader, more diverse employee base.
Rick Denton: 3:02
What I what a fascinating twist on kind of like, you've already here, what we're two minutes in and you've already spun my mind, into thinking about it in a completely different way. Because you're right, I like the idea of leveraging rather than it being a problem to solve. And I think that's related. I bet. I think that's related to something that I saw as a great headline on the out leadership homepage. I love this. It's kind of a play on the classic ROI. The headline said, return on equality. So we're seeing this ongoing growth and investment in diversity and inclusion. Why do you think that is?
Todd Sears: 3:35
Well, because companies have to do what's in their bottom line, sustainable, best interest going forward. When I was an investment banker, and a private banker, I focused on ROI from diverse communities. When I was at Merrill Lynch, I started an investment banking out of Duke where where you and I met Yeah, and and then I went into investment banking and and private banking. And when I was in private banking, I started the first team on Wall Street literally 20 years ago, this year, to focus on LGBTQ financial planning, couples, nonprofits, etc. No, 120 years ago, been focused on the gay community as a business. And I took that framework. First of all, I brought in $100 million of assets, the first 12 months, and then I brought in almost $2 billion in the first four years, and I was able to prove that there was an ROI and what I call return on equality. There is a bottom line impact to investing in diverse communities, specifically LGBTQ leadership. And I was able to get Merrill Lynch at that time. 92 year old command and control Irish Catholic organization that had never sponsored a gay renunciation and its history to start spending millions of dollars in the gay market because I tied it to bottom line. I didn't come to them and say, oh, warm, fuzzy, right thing to do help the gays. I came in, I said, we have specific financial issues. We are a financial services institution. Let's connect those dots. Let's do better by our clients do better by the world, ultimately. But let's start with the client focus.
Rick Denton: 4:57
There's a lot of similarities in what you're describing. Between even the CX word, right, the customer experience world has that same sort of challenge of proving ROI and that aspect of it. And I like that focus of what you're describing that it wasn't the warm fuzzy, let's do this because it's quote, right? It is right. But that's not the the the easiest way to get that leverage or the motivation to move that forward. I think something that surprised me, what you said, is that this was the first focus. And it was 20 years ago, I'm sort of shocked to think that it has only been two short decades, between that moment and now. And as I think about that evolution, so imagine what accompanies that. We're just getting started and thinking in that perspective, how has that evolved into what a really good DNI practice at a company looks like now?
Todd Sears: 5:42
It's it's a great point and a great question. And it is shocking that it's only been 20 years. And if you really think about 20 years ago, marriage equality was not a reality. There were 1049 rights at a federal level, the gay and lesbian couples were denied simply because of implicit discrimination in our Constitution and the fact that our laws had not caught up. Fast forward a think about don't ask, don't tell trans rights, all of the things that we have seen progress in the last 20 years. One, it's shocking in the short amount of time. But the important thing that I focus on is how the business community has driven. And if you look at business, businesses speaking out on equality, that was our very first summit 10 years ago was the first time CEOs had spoken, spoken on gay equality ever in the history of business in the same place at the same time. Yeah, fast forward. Now companies have to engage in not just LGBT equality, companies have to speak out on voting rights on Black Lives Matter on Muslim bans on 117, anti trans bills and 34 state legislators including Texas, right? How are companies really engaging in that? So to answer your your original question about how are companies looking at this now, it's not quote unquote, diversity and inclusion anymore. It is literally how they have to do business. And the you know, the Peter Drucker quote I love in business, survival is optional. You don't have to change.
Rick Denton: 7:00
Whoooo I almost want to just pause on that. That is you're absolutely right. If you don't change, the likelihood of your survival is incredibly small. I still just, I'm sincerely stunned thinking about it's two decades and realize if I think about it, of course, that's true. I think about the dates, I think about the moments that you just described as going through that. But it's hard to believe that that's that's kind of that that change has been there. So what what it clearly has happened is there's companies that are no longer just paying lip service to this, I would imagine that was the beginnings that it was a lot of, well, we'll just pay lip service to but to have this true return on equality, there has to be the sense of an actual focus on this area. How when you're talking with companies, can you tell that they're really invested in this versus just paying that sort of checkbox or lip service to advancing this?
Todd Sears: 7:48
I absolutely can. And it's a great question. I do think 20 years ago, absolutely lip service. And you think about how companies approach this very much from the managing diversity framework that I described before. It was about we don't have enough of x, whatever x is generally women, people of color, LGBTQ people, whatever your quote unquote minority was. And we have too much of why. And the Why is generally straight white men. And so companies approached it and very, I think, just challenging way, saying that we're valuing difference differently. And so I have, so what you're doing is you're saying to people, I have too many of the straight white men, you don't matter. We need to get rid of you. We have too many of you. And the people that you're bringing in, you're only valuing for one element of their difference that has nothing to do with their skill set. So of course, it doesn't work. Right. So when you say lip service, it's not just lip service. It's literally tokenism at some point. That's ultimately how companies approached it. And they were, you know, I don't think I'd have any sort of nefarious plot, but they weren't approaching it thoughtfully and strategically, like they do everything else, because they just didn't know what they were doing. Fast forward 20 years. This is integrated across everything. So ESG, for example, companies are focused on the ESG conversation in an investment way, we've been able to create market demand around this, if you look at how pension funds and asset managers and hedge funds even take BlackRock, for example. Larry Fink, their CEO each year since a letter to investors talking about how they have to look at the marketplace. And ESG and diversity inclusion have been included in that the last four years. And he's talking about millions and billions of dollars of assets. Yeah, the New York City, the New York state pension funds, CalPERS CalSTRS, the four largest in the country, our leadership was able to get to add LGBT to the definition of board diversity they require for their investment mandates, which is about $4 trillion of assets. Wow. Right? So if there's a pension fund that's buying hundreds of millions of dollars of your stock, and they're telling you the only reason that they will, they will sell your stock if you don't have diversity. That's a really different case than just lip service, right? There's a huge business connectivity that goes at all levels, these organizations now, you can't avoid it.
Rick Denton: 9:50
There's an area in here of what you're talking about that there's the enlightening piece to me and that is, you know, as a straight white male, I have at times felt included or excluded by Some of what you're describing, it's interesting to be thought of as the way you're describing this as a way to include me in that to bring me as part of the discussion and allow me to help advance that and be a part of that mission. That part is, is enlightening to me. And then the second part is how this ties to direct financial results. And I think that is so incredibly motivating and was probably, I would imagine was sort of revolutionary when you were getting the started moving that beyond that warm fuzzy into know, you're actually going to impact your bottom line, if you don't advance this forward. We're going to talk about travel, of course, and one of the reasons that I value travel is a little bit of what we're describing here, and that I over invest in travel for my family to ensure that they have that same exposure to peoples and cultures and experiences across the globe. I know you have had a wealth of travel. And imagine there's some great travel stories in there. Tell me some of your favorites.
Todd Sears: 10:54
Yeah, well, you know, leadership has summits in New York, London, Hong Kong, Paris, and Sydney every single year. So in 2019, pre pandemic, I flew 272,000 miles in 2019. Good, just roughly nine times around the world. Yeah. That's a lot. Yeah. I mean, I realized the second week of the pandemic, that was the longest that I had been in the same bed for two straight weeks since 2011. Wow. Yeah. Yeah, it was an interesting realization. And I kind of liked it truthfully. Yeah. So coming back out of the pandemic would be great to see sort of how travel evolves. Sure. You know, I, there's so many great stories. I mean, I love the fact that we have gotten to, you know, I launched the first gay summit ever in Asia almost nine years ago, hosted by HSBC, and Barclays CEOs. And I can talk a little bit about that. But you know, that even getting to that that just from a pure travel perspective, I had to give a speech in New York, I flew to San Francisco, gave a speech there, flew from San Francisco to London, to connect, to go to Amsterdam, to give a speech for McKinsey, and then on to Hong Kong for our global summit. And I had one of our interns with me for the trip, and he ended up checking a bag when we got so I was in San Francisco for all of 10 hours, right? So literally just get off the plane and run do this talk, get back on the plane go from San Francisco to London. And he checked back to London and we had a really tight connection. I was going through customs going back through and and we missed the flight and it was literally like I did something from home alone, right where they're where they're running through the the terminal in Chicago and running through Heathrow in the terminal. We missed the ultimate flight had to go back rebook a flight I landed in Amsterdam, 45 minutes before my talk to the entire McKinsey partnership. got through. Just cool i think is the airport in Amsterdam, right, got through that airport, got into a car arrived five minutes before my talk, when the bathroom splashed some water in my face, walked in, gave an hour long talk, properly passed out had a martini. So you know, there are a million different stories like that, I think the other on the Hong Kong front, which is something that I'm incredibly proud of from a leadership perspective, we have created this global conversation on equality from a business perspective, and had a lot of firsts along the way. And this summit in Hong Kong that we started nine years ago that continues, was the first case on the in Asia. And at that time, the global CEOs of HSBC and Barclays were co hosting my summit. And it was hosted in the HSBC headquarters in Hong Kong, which if you're familiar with it as a Norman Foster design building, it's iconic. It's like the Empire State Building in New York City. Beautiful. It's literally on the currency of Hong Kong, right? It's a big deal. In 37 years, they had never changed the outside of that building from red and white and red and white to anything else. At the end of the dinner, the CEOs stood up and said, We have a great surprise for you. And they flashed up video screens. They had a video of the outside of the building. And suddenly they started playing Rianna all of the lights and I'm like, Oh, it's okay, summer we're playing around. And the lights went on. And they came back up in a giant rainbow. They had rewired the building to be a giant rainbow in the Hong Kong skyline. He left it up for four nights. This is you know, eight and a half, almost nine years ago. They left it for four nights. It was the single largest press event HSBC had anywhere in the entire world that entire year. And what was even more exciting was it grew. So they started doing it all around the world, including in countries where it's still illegal to be gay. Yeah, like India, Indonesia, lots of places around the world. Well, fast forward, lots of companies now turn their building into a rainbow for the leadership summit each year in Asia. And if anybody has Apple TV, and you know, the flyover screensaver that Apple TV has, if you have Apple TV, yeah. Well, if you ever see the one that's Hong Kong at night, which is on the current rotation, it was filmed during our summit. That's why all the buildings are a giant rainbow. Wow,
Rick Denton: 14:41
what a What a beautiful story. I'm, I'm sitting here just sort of taking it in a little bit. That has to be from everything that you describe of trying to be able to even know where you are at any given moment. I bet that's an incredible challenge. But it's got to be so rewarding to see that kind of impact. In areas that may, you may not have expected to see that kind of impact. And I've got imagine that was incredibly delightful. There is what an understatement but I need to get my thesaurus out incredibly delightful. But to have that moment and I know how important that harbor is and what the lights signify on that Harbor, and to have that had to have been incredibly meaningful.
Todd Sears: 15:21
It really was. And there's so many great stories like that. I mean, it just when a senior leader stands up and does something like that, it has a ripple effect in the organization. You know, five years later, the CEO of Taiwan for HSBC walked his employee down the aisle at her wedding to her wife, when her family had disowned her. Wow. The CEO of HSBC for Australia the year after that hosted our first ever summit in Australia, and his son had just come out to him six months before. And it was this huge family watershed moment to be able to host this summit and have his son at the summit with his family with all of his colleagues and 55 other CEOs and companies around Australia. I mean, the the impact of these conversations in these conveniences is really exciting and has such a great knock on ripple effect.
Rick Denton: 16:12
With those kinds of travels, Todd, you clearly need the first class lounge. So why don't you join me here in that first class lounge? We'll move quickly and hopefully have a little bit of fun in your case. Let's get you a little bit of rest. But what is a dream travel location from your past?
Todd Sears: 16:28
You know, one of my favorite places is St. Barts Believe it or not. I love all the cities we get to go to all over the world. But St. Barts is probably my favorite dream location I go every year, I spend two weeks at least I got the advice my first year that you can add one day every year you go. So I hope to be you know, 60 days at some point. But it's a wonderful place. It feels like home, even though it's a vacation destination. Everyone there is just there to have fun enjoy themselves. And it feels like it's a family. I know all of you know, I have a lot of friends there. And it's not just a vacation. It really is an escape.
Rick Denton: 17:00
I like that idea of adding one day, every every repeat trip. I am absolutely going to start using that for sure. Well thinking about. So you're gonna go back to st part. But what is a dream travel location you've not been to yet. You know,
Todd Sears: 17:13
I would really love to go to Eastern Europe, the Balkans, I'd love to go to Croatia. We actually had the opportunity to work at our Europe summit seven years ago, the prime the Deputy Prime Minister then of Montenegro came to my summit and spoke. And he announced at our summit that Montenegro would support marriage equality as part of their bid to become part of the European Union, which they ultimately did. And he's actually just as a sidebar, he's the guy that Donald Trump pushed out of the big EU photo if I remember 10 years ago, I do remember that Yeah, yes. So that was and so we have a very open VIP, if you will, invitation to go to Montenegro that I really hope to do once things are open to Montenegro Croatia that whole world is is beautiful exciting, a huge opportunity for progress to by the way Yeah, I don't think there'll be a vacation I'll ever take where there won't be some sort of equality component to it. But that's where I'd love to go
Rick Denton: 18:01
nice to have the open ended VIP invitation there but I do want to get to easier what is a favorite thing to eat?
Todd Sears: 18:10
gummy bears bizarre I like it that's that's the only sweet I like I don't like desserts I don't I'm not a chocolate guy when we go out to eat everybody gets dessert but me but if I have my my secret guilty pleasure it's always gummy bears that's like my my comfort food when I'm on that when I'm in need of a sugar fix
Rick Denton: 18:28
you when that when I've not had gummy bears show up yet. But it gives me a fond childhood memory. My dad had a he was a physician had an ear nose and throat practice. And there was a patient that was from Germany. And she actually set up an arrangement with him that she paid him in gummy bears the originals from Germany, so sort of variable just kind of a friendly relationship. But I remember as a kid seeing her, you know, hand over the the gummy bears when she was getting treated in the office.
Todd Sears: 18:55
Oh my god, I wish I had that. Dangerous set of the size of a house.
Rick Denton: 19:01
These aren't video podcasts. Okay. Go whatever direction you want. On the flip side, what is the thing your parents forced you to eat? But you hate it as a kid?
Todd Sears: 19:12
You know? It's bizarre. Nothing. Absolutely nothing. I eat everything. My dad gave me oysters the first time when I was three. Wow. Yeah, it's really kind of funny. There is literally nothing that I was forced to eat as a kid. I was just kind of either easy like that, or I just liked everything. But yeah, there was there was nothing that I didn't like and there are very few things now that I don't like I you know, I'm kind of lucky that way. I guess
Rick Denton: 19:37
that really is and perhaps a lot of it has to do with a parent exposing a child that boosts oysters at age three. Because then if you're if you're enjoying that you're gonna enjoy just about anything else at that point. Some kitchen chicken nuggets. Yeah, yeah,
Todd Sears: 19:50
that's right. Thank God. Yeah, that's a good nuggets.
Rick Denton: 19:53
With all your travels? What is one travel item you will not leave home without
Todd Sears: 19:59
headphones. I literally had music going all the time, I make playlists, my, my, my, my side hobby is DJ. So I actually have like a little baby DJ rig that I take on long flights with me so I can make playlists and mixes and, and then I'll name them after the trips. And that's how I keep myself seeing on trips, but also just all the time. I'm always, always always listening to music.
Rick Denton: 20:28
Today, I'm thinking about customer experience again. And thinking back to that return on equality, and all the ROI discussion. You know, some of what we talked about, are companies influencing other companies through decisions, right with saying they'll sell shares. But at the customer layer, are you seeing sort of customers choosing to vote with their wallets towards companies that are truly inclusive?
Todd Sears: 20:51
Absolutely. Hands down. You look at any market research in the last 10 years, actually, I'll use LGBTQ as a great example. Almost 85% of consumers will switch brands from a company that is LGBT Exclusive OR discriminates against LGBTQ people. It's actually more than LGBT people themselves. And it's a great example actually, from, you know, something that's probably in your neck of the woods chick fil a, oh, yeah. Right. chick fil a very popular in the south. You know, I grew up with colonists, you know, and chick fil a CEO, about six years ago made some very anti LGBT comments about marriage equality and gay couples not being real family, and the brand favourability index at chick fil a dropped 62% in two weeks, there are not enough gay people out there in the world to make that happen. that had to do with allies that had to do with people choosing to buy with, with the you know, with inclusion in mind. And that is just, you know, exponentially the same, especially Gen Y and Gen Z. And it's not just the products and services, it's the companies themselves, they literally want to know before they go and work with a company. Is the company inclusive? How is the company showing up on the world? How are they making the world a better place Gen Y and Gen Z expect to be able to make a difference in the world simply through showing up at work. So it's not just the consumer buying behavior, it's the talent as well, and companies have got to get it right.
Rick Denton: 22:12
That is that is something I see in my own children as being parts of that generation or even the generation after that. That is something that is of vital interest to them. You're the story that you mentioned is definitely one that garnered significant press. But I think it's also happening on smaller scale as well. And that I've talked with a lot of guests about employee experience. And we've talked generally about employee experience. But I think what you're describing there is a very key element of employee experience that you're absolutely right, that more and more candidates are coming in. And even being willing to in that sensitive time during an interview, being willing to ask those bold questions and evaluate whether they're going to go forward with a company or not, if it doesn't match what they are expecting from that sense of inclusion, and that sense of overall employee experience. I think this this feels like one of those moments in time, where doing what's right for business actually matches what's right for society. And I think back that there are times that that did not necessarily fit, that there were times that it made a heck of a lot more sense to pollute the environment or destroy social, you know, society in general. And that would then benefit the business. But right now everything you're describing those two worlds weave together. So tell me why a company when they see this, why wouldn't they want to improve their inclusion?
Todd Sears: 23:34
First of all, you're exactly right. And I want to make a quick comment about something you were just saying at the very end of the last comment about employee experience. The term that I end up using now is belonging, not diversity and inclusion, but belonging, right, because you mentioned earlier that you know, you felt excluded at times in your career as a straight white male. The idea of belonging is really central to how companies should be thinking about this. So it's about how you actually feel like you were a part of an organization's culture. Yeah. And that you feel like you show up and you know, what the signals are, you know, how to do the dance, you know, how to, you know, understand the acronyms that you really are a part of the fabric of the company. And that's very different from counting belly buttons from an old school diversity perspective. Yeah. And so, you know, just to to your second question, then, you know, why wouldn't companies do this? I'm not aware of any companies that aren't struggling with this. You know, I think it'd be very hard pressed to have a company come out one publicly and say, yeah, this isn't for us. We're out, we're tapping out. You know, you guys have fun with this diversity, inclusion and thing. We're gonna go back to our bubble. There are people in the political realm who are doing that very vociferously. And they are using vulnerable minorities to make the case and to create fear of inclusion. And if you think about the Trump administration and the challenges that we had, on a myriad of topics, but inclusion in particular and Trump ministration did away with diversity inclusion training, said that it was illegal so that it was discriminatory on its face. All the way through to all the bands and everything else. So I don't actually see any companies moving away from this, where I see the opportunity, though is companies are struggling to figure out how to get it right. Yeah. And so you know, I was just in Knoxville, Tennessee this last week working with a home building company. And it was so exciting to see this old school mainline organization that is construction, who is run by 100%, straight white men with a 10 year age bracket among them. Yeah, looking around the table and saying we got to change we need to do better. And not knowing how they're going to do it, but knew from an opportunity perspective that they really needed to evolve. And that's exciting. That gets me jazzed up. And that is where I think the future of this all goes back to my Peter Drucker quote about survival and change. That is where companies I think are struggling. And that's why it's exciting to do the work that we do to help them get it right.
Rick Denton: 25:50
The phrase that is absolutely going to cement with me after this is that idea of belonging, inclusion, but really belonging and I really like that. And I think that actually kind of takes me, sadly, I think we're coming close to the end of time here. But it does get me thinking about how I'd like to close this out. And when you think of belonging, you've talked about straight white males. But anybody who's not officially part of whatever category it is that we're trying to advance from a movement perspective, regardless what that is, it often advances with allies, people who aren't a part of that community, but really support the needs and aspirations. I think some of it goes into belonging but in general, how do you go about creating allies for the mission of out leadership?
Todd Sears: 26:33
Well, it's it's a really important concept. And it's something we've done a lot of work on, we actually published the first ever global ally research this last year called ally up, folks can download from our website at leadership calm. But you know, from a broader concept allies, I think, are the number one reason that people feel included. It's the number one reason gay people come out. It's the number one people feel like they belong to an organization. But I would encourage us to start to think about it a little bit differently. The old school traditional definition of ally imbues a power dynamic. Someone has power, and they're giving power to someone else. Yeah, right. I have all the power as a straight white male, for example, or I have all the power as the president of organization. And I'm going to pat you on the head and give you some of my power. And I'm going to be your ally, and kind of help you along, you know, less than person versus what I like to call an accomplice, someone who literally says, You know what, I'm side by side you in this fight, let's talk about how we can work together to advance inclusion, this company, you name it, so that there takes away that sort of power dynamic. And the idea of ally ship then has a very different meaning. And then the final thing I'll say is that allies have to come out, you have to tell people that you are an ally, whether it's to LGBTQ people, to people of color to the black community, Hispanic community, you and that's for everyone. That's a you that's not straight white men, that's every single person has to find a way to communicate that they are allies. Because if I just use LGBTQ people, for example, we are always searching for psychological safety. In every room we walk into, we look around and say, is this safe? Can I be out here? Are these people anti gay until you tell us you're an ally? We Unfortunately, because of the idea that discrimination is everywhere and the assumption of negative intent, we will assume that you're not an ally. And that's unfortunate. That's, that's wrong. It's unfair, but it's how human brains work. Yeah, so Alice do really have to come out. And I encourage those allies to then become accomplices.
Rick Denton: 28:24
Todd, I almost want to just pause but then it'd be dead air. But I'm just sitting here just kind of stunned you have. I've never done this in a podcast before. But you'll notice that I've interrupted the episode. I'm about to say a word tolerant, which I would imagine a wide swath of us think is a positive word. After the episode Todd in the kind way, that is the essence of who he is pointed out the tolerant isn't well received when trying to create a sense of belonging. we tolerate cough medicine, we tolerate brussels sprouts. we tolerate the things we don't like. We shouldn't speak of tolerating another human. What I really valued about this post episode interaction with Todd is that it pointed out two key things we can and I did with the best intentions with a pure innocence say or do things that can hurt others. And it takes the bravery of those who know a better way to offer kind correction and instruction on the better way. I'm thankful for Todd for having that bravery to talk with me after the episode. So instead of editing out tolerant from the recording, I leave it and share the story of Todd's Gentle Teaching moment for me in the hopes that it will be insightful to someone else who is listening. Now, back to the episode, you've really changed the way I think about this, I came into this conversation with one way of thinking, and I felt that you know, hey, I'm particularly tolerant and I'm, you know, supportive and those kinds of things. But even just the thought of the conversation where we've talked about that, it's that sense of belonging and what that actually means. And then this to end the conversation with talking about Allah You're right, I never thought of it that way but an ally there is that implied power power differential there. And instead the accomplices and going down that path, and I actually will try to work on my own external language to try to support those. So what a great conversation, Todd, I can't tell you how much I appreciate you being willing to spend time when you're not on a plane to talk with me about this. I have already mentioned how much I've learned. I've certainly been fascinated with some of the travel stories and what a What a beautiful story of the the change of how the HSBC building was lit there in Hong Kong. It's just been an eye opening entertaining conversation that I thank you so much for thought I wish you the best with the mission of our leadership. There's an ally here. There it is declared it is on recording. It'll be published out leadership. Best of luck to everything you have. Todd, thank you so much for the conversation today. And hopefully get yourself to the islands someday soon.
Todd Sears: 30:59
I look forward to Rick, thanks so much for having me excited to see where this goes.
Rick Denton: 31:06
Thanks for joining us this week on CX Passport. Make sure to visit our website cxpassport.com where you can hit subscribe so you'll never miss a show. While you're at it, you can check out the rest of the EX4CX website. If you're looking to get real about customer experience, EX4CX is available to help you increase revenue by starting to listen to your customers and create great experiences for every customer every time. Thanks for listening to CX Passport and be sure to tune in for our next episode. Until next time, I'm Rick Denton, and I believe the best meals are served outside and require a passport.
Host - Rick Denton
Rick believes the best meals are served outside and require a passport.
A sought after keynote speaker and CX leader, Rick transforms CX and VOC programs from Survey & Score to Listen and Act.
After a successful corporate career, Rick launched EX4CX - Execution for Customer Experience to bring CX victories to a wide client base.
Rick combines these loves by hosting the CX Passport podcast, a weekly talk with guests about customer experience and travel.